2.04 "Green-Eyed Monster"
Aired Oct 19, 2005
funky-donut: I had a lot of problems with this episode. The main thing, though, is that suddenly Veronica and Keith suck as detectives. Veronica told Julie that she would be doing basic background checks on Collin, including checking aliases. Why didn't she find out that he was Patrick Collin Nevin, rich guy extraordinaire, first thing? Also, she shouldn't have called Julie until after she found out why Collin was at that address, and normally I don't think she would have. But they had to set up that ridiculous flying tackle, so...
misskiwi: I liked it, funky-donut, but I agree that there seemed to be a lot more "Um..." moments this week. Veronica's basic investigation skillz should have turned up his real name, his family background, and the fact that the house he was currently staying in was not owned by him. It more than made up for it with the snark, though. "...Are you there yet?" was delivered perfectly by the always-on-target Kristen Bell, and Logan's "My day is complete: Veronica Mars has accused me of evil" is now officially my favorite line, ever.
topanga: I liked this episode overall, but I agree with you, funky-donut, that there were some flaws. I'll come back to those. I can't dis my show right off the bat.
funky-donut: Heh, what are you saying, that I'm one of those people? Hmmm?
topanga: Wallace was great. I loved his facial expressions in this episode. His look of surprise when Carl/Nathan tells him he's his father wasn't overdone. And when Jackie sort-of threatens Veronica, he subtly smiles and says, "I wouldn't do that. She's not someone you want to piss off." What his grin says without words is, "My girl would take you down in a New York minute." Maybe not physically, but with Veronica, physical violence wouldn't be necessary.
And Darrell is back. Yay! He's such a little cutie. I'm glad Alicia finally picked him up from Grandma's, boarding school, or juvie — wherever he'd been staying. Wallace's response to his question was a typical older brother response. Darrell probably learned the term "hittin' that" from Wallace. However, most mothers, especially Alicia, would not have let him get away with saying it in her presence.
misskiwi: I think a lot of fans probably had a continuitygasm. There are very few shows on television that pay attention to detail on this level, but it adds so much depth when you can bring up a one-shot character as an offhand reference, or think ahead enough to drop a mention of a party in episode two that we don't hear of again until episode four and will likely be a key point of the season's major mystery. That, my friends, is how to work it when you write a TV show.
topanga: I agree with funky-donut that there were indeed a number of weaknesses. The MotW wasn't very interesting. Unlike last week, this time the victim was someone we didn't know or care about. And the actress playing the girlfriend was mediocre, at best. I found myself not caring how it turned out.
misskiwi: I liked the MotW overall, though, because it kept me on my toes. At one point, I actually said with a very knowing air that Collin was totally lying about being rich and was all after Julie's money, instead of cheating on her as she suspected. Um, oops much? I like the MotWs that let us think we're one step ahead of everyone when we're really about three steps behind. There were definitely flaws in either the writing or the detective work, depending on how you read it, and I have trouble buying that the "simple background check" Veronica was supposed to start off with on Collin didn't turn up his status as an effing-rich heir.
funky-donut: Oh, thank you. That's been driving me crazy. It's not like he completely changed his name or his identity. It should have been the first thing she found. So unless you fanwank it that she never actually DID the background check, which would be out of character for her, then it's a total plot hole.
Also, Veronica of old would have noticed that he did the genealogy search after Julie found the ring, thus implying that he was not proposing for her money, before she gave Julie her search that caused Julie to break up with him. Either Veronica's detective work is slipping or the writers are.
Inigo: Veronica is off her game. I don't think it is unintentional on the writers' part.
topanga: Veronica did mention this to Julie, but Julie was still extremely upset that Collin had looked into her family background at all.
Polter-Cow: Yeah, but it took her like three thousand years to realize that the search was done after he bought the ring, when she's supposed to be observant enough to have made that connection the first time. Like she's supposed to be observant enough to have caught Kendall's switching gym bags. Are the writers deliberately crappifying her detective skills to emphasize that, hey, she's just a kid, and Keith's the real deal? Who can't make that one phone call to discover his girlfriend's stalker is a cop? Because he's not in the police department and therefore not privy to that information? Okay, fine, that one is okay.
wyk: Am I the only one who liked this episode?
I disagree with the criticism about the "shoddy" detective work. Collin is from Scotland so it's totally believable that the Prying Eyez site wouldn't have information about his family history. I'm assuming sites like those use information from various U.S. government agencies. Plus Veronica was doing searches for "Collin Nevin," not "Patrick Collin Nevin." Having the right name does make searching for info a whole lot easier.
Don't be so harsh on Veronica about missing the date on the ring. Her detective skillz are bound to be a little off when it's 1:40 a.m. in the morning. Look at browser history or look at boxers-only boyfriend. Look at browser history or go to sleep. Look at browser history or more Chinese food.
The real problem I have with that scene is, how in the hell did she buy dim sum in the middle of the night? Everyone knows that dim sum is a breakfast-lunch-brunch thing.
topanga: Speaking of dim sum...when Veronica makes a snarky comment to Duncan, all he does is chuckle. "How about some dim sum and then some?" *chuckle* That's not working for me. Is it that Duncan doesn't know how to respond to her, like ever, or is it that the writers don't trust Teddy to deliver snark?
I wish someone would please allow Duncan to express some emotion. We get this bomb in our laps tonight about him visiting Meg's hospital room every day, and I have no idea why he does it or how he really feels about her. Maybe it's because the show is from Veronica's perspective, but still. It doesn't make him mysterious — only very confusing.
misskiwi: I agree, topanga. Isn't Veronica supposed to be the love of his life? You know, the one he couldn't turn away from even when he thought she was his sister? And yet when she brings up something he's not comfortable talking about, WHAM! Cold shoulder. I just don't get it. We know Teddy can act from his great scenes in "A Trip to the Dentist" and even last week, and from what we keep hearing about the scene he auditioned with, but either the writers don't know what to do with him, they don't trust him, or Teddy doesn't know how to do scenes where he's just being himself rather than having a lot of intensity.
funky-donut: God, I loved Veronica's "so I'm just supposed to stay in here like a HOOKER?!" whisper/shout, sheet-snap, and then "Perfect!" She cracked me up with that moment. But, again, I really do not understand how she can go from that to walking out of Duncan's bedroom the next morning, smiling. Where was the reconciliation?
Also notice, Duncan was apologizing to Lizzie when she walked in and found Veronica, not Veronica.
topanga: Yeah, you're right, funky-donut. I really used to like Duncan, but he's been behaving more and more like a jerk lately.
funky-donut: Props to everyone who called Carl/Nathan as being Wallace's dad, because I totally didn't catch that snap. But why in the hell didn't Keith check on his aliases? That's two weeks in a row that Lamb has been right about something! I sense a redemption arc!
misskiwi: *does a superiority dance*
I suspect that the reason Keith didn't find out about Carl/Nathan is that the alias was for use in undercover work and so might be harder to crack than most. No use trying to infiltrate the mafia if they can Google you and come up with the homepage for the Chicago PD.
funky-donut: But, but...Lamb found out who he really was with a phone call. I truly think that it should have been just as easy for Keith, considering his P.I. work and his former job as Sheriff. I think Keith just took Alicia's word for it and didn't even check, and that bothers me. I mean, I love Alicia too, but Keith should know better.
wyk: I have no problem with the fact that Keith didn't do an in-depth search of Carl. 1) At the beginning of the show Keith says he can't get to the cases he already has and he doesn't want new cases. 2) Keith does have a blind eye when it comes to his special lady friends. (He had no idea that Veronica might not be his until Celeste told him.) 3) Up to this point, Keith had no reason to distrust Alicia.
topanga: I also wondered why Keith never ran a background check on Alicia. I thought he knew something was up after the "Cher" incident and was playing dumb, but obviously, he really was dumb in this scenario. Perhaps being in love took away his common sense. Or maybe he didn't really want to know the truth.
Inigo: It may be that Keith is not his daughter and Alicia isn't Logan. Despite being burned with Lianne, I think for Keith it would be natural for him to take what Alicia tells him at face value. It's not even a case of his being honourable. He would have no reason to doubt her. The pain on his face is the moment when that faith in her crumbles.
misskiwi: Oh, I completely agree that he would take Alicia at her word, but in order to know the guy's rap sheet he would have had to run a background check. He does know she lied to him in Chicago, but it's likely he gave her the benefit of the doubt and didn't dig deeper on someone she claimed was out to get her.
funky-donut: You guys are right about Keith. We already know that while Keith has great intuition about some things, he's certainly not infallible, especially when it comes to the women in his life. I think it jumped out at me more that he missed the Nathan Woods thing because Veronica's detective work bothered me so much.
misskiwi: The pacing of the mystery arcs continues to be a perfect balance between satisfying and aggravating. I was quite surprised we got movement on Alicia's mystery so quickly, but pleasantly so. I like how they've already thrown three or four entirely plausible theories on the bus crash and done it very smoothly.
funky-donut: I totally don't get the earring thing. Weevil "explained" his earring being there by saying that he got an anonymous phone call that Curly was getting revenge on Cervando for the Fighting Fitzpatricks, right? But how in the bloody hell does that explain his earring being there? And why didn't Veronica notice that he never actually explained it? And don't get my started on their banter, because it felt really forced and not at all like last season.
topanga: funky-donut, you call Weevil and Veronica's conversation banter? Veronica tried to joke with him for old times' sake, but when she said something about rubbing on his head and making a wish, he said her first wish would be that she'd be able to wake up in the morning. That really disturbed me. I've never seen Weevil be mean to Veronica. And I do agree that he evaded her question about the earring.
funky-donut: I didn't see their "banter" as threatening, I saw it as a failed attempt at bringing back their witty repartee from last season. But you're right, the line about seeing tomorrow is far more violent than Weevil has ever been with Veronica.
wyk: When Weevil made that rub-head threat, the other PCHers were standing right next to him. As the late Felix once said, "Don't let blondie talk to you like that!" During this have vs. have-not war, the PCHers see Veronica as a have with not one but two billionaire boyfriends. And one of those boyfriends was accused of killing Felix. Given these circumstances, Weevil has no choice but to appear anti-Veronica in front of his posse. When the guys left, he went back to being her ally. And that underwear comment was so cute.
topanga: So what's the big mystery with his earring?
grim squeaker: So, someone called Weevil about Curly being the one behind the bus crash from Logan's (or one of the Echolls') phones on the night of the Life's Short party, right?
Hm. Two things: Dick and Beaver most probably were at that party, and Big Dick sent the limo explicity so that they wouldn't be on the bus. I have a very bad feeling about this. Uh, and that's basically all.
misskiwi: I got the impression that Dick requested his dad sent a limo, so if anything that sheds suspicion on him. I doubt Big Dick would just randomly send limos around after his sons, particularly in the middle of the day when he's at work and his family doesn't exist.
Inigo: And you all mocked my "Beaver is evil" theory.
grim squeaker: What would shock you more, if Beaver was evil or if Dick actually had a conscience?
Inigo: Oohh. There's a thought.
grim squeaker: See what I mean? Of course, the possibility of either of them knowing an Irish gang named the "Fighting Fitzpatricks" (I still cannot get over that name) seems rather small, so my theory is probably for nothing.
funky-donut: I think it would be less likely for Weevil to recognize Beaver's voice. I mean, given the amount of confrontations between his gang and Logan's, he's probably pretty aware of who Dick is as a person. Beaver, I'm speccing, would be totally under his radar. Or maybe I just really don't want my little BeavCassidy to be evil.
grim squeaker: funky-donut, I don't want him to be evil, either. It's just good, old-fashioned paranoia. If a character is nice on this show, I'm simply getting suspicious. You know, maybe it was Deputy Sacks.
Yes, misskiwi, my theory has some fatal flaws, not least the question why Dick and/or Beaver should know Weevil's phone number, but I just thought it interesting to speculate who could have made the call. I mean, the way Logan explained it, half the police department, most of the PCH bikers, and most of the party guests could have been the person who did.
topanga: Words I never thought I'd utter: I wanted more Logan in this episode. His scenes are always tight and full of energy. There were times this episode dragged, partly because of poor editing, and partly because it's obvious when Kristen Bell is working with an actor who isn't quite at her level (the Julie character, primarily). Kristen and Jason Dohring complement each other well.
topanga: During their great scene together, could you feel the chill in the air between Logan and Veronica? If there are any leftover romantic feelings on either side, they're buried under a whole lot of anger and bitterness, especially on Logan's part. Veronica seems resolved to keeping their relationship as professional as possible.
funky-donut: I agree that she's desperately trying to keep things professional. I think his anger at her is still very much there. And I don't think Logan's anger is ever cold, if you know what I mean. It is kind of fun in a sick way to see him trying to torment her like he did last season again — he can't call her a slut anymore, so he resorts to saying she's "below" him and his friends again, something we know is hollow...and more importantly, he knows it too.
topanga: I also liked the tense scene between Keith and Veronica. Keith is upset about Alicia being tailed by a cop, and he takes out his frustrations on Veronica, who just happens to take on a case he told her to turn down. It's the classic kick-the-dog scenario, and both actors were excellent. Plus, Veronica gets busted for spending the night in Duncan's hotel room. Ouch.
funky-donut Seriously, ouch. And that reminds me of something else that bothered me: Veronica goes from "Busted!" to "Oh, hey, let me look at my computer and continue working on the case that my beloved Dad just told me he was pissed at me for working on and not even look upset about getting busted anymore." Y'all know I never criticize KB's acting, and I have to think it was poor plotting or direction here. There should have been some time, you know?
Inigo: I want bragging rights vis-a-vis Meg. I said after the season premiere that I thought she could be pregnant. I also inferred it in the mystery clues for the first episode, when I said that there was more to Meg's reaction to Veronica than we knew. This episode, I think, confirms those suspicions.
misskiwi: Whoa, whoa, whoa. WHAT? Either I missed something or you're on crack.
Inigo: Huh? Are you suggesting I take drugs? Besides nicotine. And caffeine. And the occasional...um, never mind.
Polter-Cow: misskiwi, many other people are saying that as well. It's a Big Secret that would cause Meg's conservative parents to pull the plug.
Inigo: They're saying it now. Where were they three episodes ago, eh?
misskiwi: I don't buy it. Meg and Duncan have been broken up for at least three months and Meg is rail-skinny. I think Duncan is too decent a guy to head for the hills if he knocked up his girlfriend. I think Meg's parents appear conservative enough to be horrified at stuff far less serious than her being pregnant. Besides, the doctors would know if Meg was pregnant and they would have told her parents. In which case, what would Lizzie feel the need to conceal? And Lizzie is certainly capable of exaggerating the consequences of her parents going through that computer.
Inigo: A lot of people don't show at three months. As for her state now, we don't know, we haven't seen her. Also, just because they broke up, that doesn't mean they weren't taking steps back together until Veronica responded to the fortune cookie. Also, she might not still be pregnant. She may have had an abortion. On Duncan's decency...yes and no. Duncan has a history of avoiding his problems. I agree about her parents being conservative, but I was wondering about the line about keeping her alive. I think the parents could know, thus why they are so angry. But they may not know, for example, the circumstances (maybe Meg did it deliberately to try to keep Duncan or get him back or maybe she was going to abort). Granted Lizzie could be exaggerating but, and this is why I thought it from day one, Meg's reaction to Veronica was strange. There had to be a lot more to it than the fact that she and Duncan were back together and the only thing I could think of then was that Meg was pregnant. And that Duncan may well have misled Meg as to his reasons for not staying with her.
misskiwi: I'm going to stand by my logic of the doctors having to tell her parents and say there's no way she's still pregnant. I'll concede that she may not have been that way all summer, although I think it's a bit unlikely for the show and its noir genre (not that I claim to be familiar with it). I suspect there's more to the breakup than we know, but I don't think it's this. Maybe Duncan gave her VD?
Inigo: You know? Now everyone seems to have jumped on the pregnancy/abortion bandwagon, it's losing its appeal for me. Having said that, the assumption that the doctors and the parents don't know about a pregnancy/abortion is just that, an assumption. There's nothing to say that the doctors and parents don't know — in fact, it's more reasonable to assume the parents do, given their anger with Duncan. It does seem to go far beyond his being their daughter's ex-boyfriend. Remember, these are parents who didn't send Lizzie to Catholic school for waking up in the swim coach's cabin at summer camp. It was for something else.
Having said that, I am going off the idea because it now seems too obvious. I'm now more interested in why Duncan is there every day and what Meg thought Veronica had done. On the first, we seem to be being fed that Duncan cares for Meg and that's why he's there. What if he has a more pragmatic reason — he's there to be there when she wakes up, either because he is afraid of what she will say or wants to coach her in what to say? That's much more intriguing.
Polter-Cow: I'd just like to point out that we already have a plot-related reason for keeping Meg in a coma rather than letting her have perished in the bus crash. Now, it may not be the Unknown Saboteur who kills her, but her own freaking parents.
Inigo: I'm warming to the idea that Meg was the target and it has something to do with her and Duncan and the reason she hates Veronica—an even better plot reason to keep her comatose.
alliterator: I just think Alona Tal is hot.
funky-donut: Hee. Gross, dude, she's in a coma!
alliterator: Still hot.
What would really be funny, is if they went the soap opera routine. Meg gets out of her coma and goes after Veronica for revenge — because Meg's pregnant with Duncan's baby! Only it's not Meg! It's Meg's twin sister that her parents have kept locked up in the basement until now! And the baby isn't Duncan's! It's Logan's! But Kendall kills Meg's twin in a fit of jealousy and then tells Logan about it, who mistakenly thinks she's killed Veronica. However, Veronica is found by the real Meg who tells her that Curly Moran was her lover and...
topanga: Please, no. For the love of God! All of the touchy-feely relationship crap going on right now is enough of a soap-opera for me.
alliterator: I'd take an evil twin over touchy-feely any day.
grim squeaker: Why would we need evil twins, if we have gangs like the "Fighting Fitzpatricks"?
misskiwi: Geez, guys, I already made the soap opera joke like two weeks ago. I would bet good money that VMVO will make some soap-opera-y joke if and when Meg comes out of her coma.
funky-donut: New topic: wouldn't Lamb's reveal have been more effective for the audience if we hadn't seen Carl Morgan/Nathan Woods flash his badge at the guy at the hotel desk?
grim squeaker: The reveal actually worked for me because when Woods showed his batch to the hotel clerk in last week's episode, he did it so fast and seemed so shady, that I simply believed the badge to be fake. I was very surprised to find out that he actually is a cop, and a well-respected one at that. Interestingly, I still don't trust him.
funky-donut: Did anyone else feel slightly uncomfortable with Veronica's Lolita routine? I mean, yes, she's 18 now. And yes, she looked extremely hot and cute. But I found myself bothered by her seductress routine, and, yes, I was actually a little irritated with her when she seemed to be upset that Collin wasn't going for her. I mean, it's a good thing that he wasn't going for her! Why was she upset that he wasn't? Maybe I was reading her wrong, or maybe I was just really cranky for this episode. What did you guys think?
topanga: It bothered me, too, funky-donut. Veronica kept the routine going for so long (it should have been edited more) that I worried about the possibility of Collin becoming very aroused and attacking her. Would she have been able to fend him off by herself, or would her screams be loud enough for Wallace to hear? That was so not the point of the scene, but I couldn't help but think about it. Keith was right when he told Veronica that she does a lot of things she thinks she can handle but might not be able to. It showed me that, kick-ass private eye or not, Veronica is still young and somewhat naïve.
funky-donut: Ooh, I had forgotten, but, yes, that is exactly how I felt watching for the first time. The static, the fact that they made such a big deal out of the fact that Wallace didn't know what was going on: I thought it was all leading to Collin making a move that Veronica wasn't, in fact, ready for or just being a big ol' psycho. But then suddenly it turned into this comical moment with Wallace and the pens and candy, and the abrupt shift in tone was confusing.
grim squeaker: It went on too long, and I found it a little annoying, and also extremely embarassing for Collin. I mean, up until then Veronica had already found out that he seemed a rather sensible, caring guy, so why come on to him in such a blunt way? I also cannot get rid of the feeling that these are deliberate attempts to sex Veronica up, and besides thinking she does not need it, I find it a little sleazy.
funky-donut: Exactly. I mean, the Hebrew lesson scene had already happened. I know she wanted to upgrade Julie to a better package, but she could have done her "temptation scenario" as just an excuse to get in and burn his files, without being so obvious about it. It also made her seem a little egotistical, too. I prefer my Veronica as a no-nonsense girl who doesn't seem to realize how gorgeous she is. I mean, yeah, she dresses cute and wears make-up and stuff, but she has never before made a big deal out of how she looks.
I realize she was playing a part, but her seemingly genuine irritation at not being able to get Collin to respond to her made me feel like she honestly was thinking to herself "But I'm so hot! How can he not want me?" And I don't want my Veronica to be one of Those Girls.
misskiwi: I've certainly seen better role-playing out of Veronica. "Amber" in 1.04 "The Wrath of Con""The Wrath of Con," for instance. Would any guy with half a brain actually fall for her act?
funky-donut: Have I mentioned that I love this show lately? Because I feel like I was negative in most of my comments, but I really love this show. Even if I wasn't crazy about this episode, there were many moments that made me happy or cracked me up or — most of all — made me THINK. And I know the season's just going to keep getting better. So, in conclusion, even an episode I wasn't crazy about is STILL better television than 99% of what else is on.
Well, don't forget that Battlestar Galatica is pretty awesome. And I still love Lost. And where does Arrested Development fall in there? VM is definitely great, and I lurve it with all my squee, but don't you think 99% is a little WORD.
misskiwi: Hear, hear. Everybody give Rob a big hug!
grim squeaker: But I miss Backu...okay, okay, I agree.
marks of love: Fo' shizzle.
alliterator: I concur with you wholeheartedly, my fellow Jewish white person.
topanga: One love.